In Places Deep nWoD 2.0 MU



  • What: In Places Deep
    Where: IPDMu - inplacesdeep.com:4551
    Status: Not Active Yet (Live Date TBD)
    Web: http://www.inplacesdeep.com

    We are seeking a variety of staffers (and players) for an nWoD 2.0 Mu that (for now) features Beast, Mortal, Mortal +, Vampire, and Werewolf (incl. Pure).

    IPD is a horror-ccentric roleplaying mush based in the city of Portland, Oregon that revolves around the eternal conflict of the forces of darkness.

    Choose between...

    Beast - The coming of the Dark Mother has been rumored all about the city ever since she was reputedly witnessed gliding around the top of Mt. Hood. Her children are broken into Quasi-Political factions to deal with her eventual return.

    Mortal - The hustle and bustle of the city and its denizens goes on much as it has for the last decade, but in the shadow of the skyscrapers and eerie silence of the woods, darker things yet lurk and wait to be discovered... and released. Mortals of this sphere will become a living part of classical horror, they will encounter ghosts and goblins and terrors, the things that go bump in the night. These people are your average men and woman, and this is not a power fantasy, it's a tale of horror.

    Mortal+ - In the world of mortals, few manage a brush with the supernatural and live to remember the tale, but among those few who straddle both worlds, there are stranger things, cults and rituals and rites to peer behind the veil. Mortals of this Sphere will Focus on the mystery cults and the vagaries of the god machine - and stranger things still, demons and monsters from beyond.

    Vampire - The Scholar Prince spends his time among his books and the city has broken into ordered chaos. Warlords have claimed land as regents and create the only law, Draugr have taken over parts of the city and the Strix have been sighted more often as of late. As ever, the corrupt Seneschal proclaims the nights beginning, even as talk of revolt is whispered in all the corners of the city.

    Werewolf - The Idigams are free and have unleashed their wrath on the city. These ancient foes of Urfarah beckon for challenge and destruction, the Pure and Forsaken alike have joined forces to combat the alliance of these mutual foes. The Urdaga guard the gauntlet as always and the Anshega howl at these insults to their Father, but will it be enough?

    Other Awesome Tidbits!

    Families - The various families of Portland have been personally designed by the HSTs of the venue in order to provide supported social interaction and stories. Unlike many MU*s these are structured like mystery cults, participation will be rewarded with power, authority and benefits and each will receive an ST to facilitate interaction.

    Power - Social climbing is a mainstay of our game and will be thoroughly supported in all spheres (But obviously more of a focus in some over others). Politics will be very difficult and dangerous but rewarding and require exquisite RP and attention to truly master. It will not be a game for the faint of heart. We are not going to rely on a “Popularity Contest” system but on the personal attention of the staff.

    Creativity - Players are encouraged to own, construct buildings and change the features of the city through their own RP experience. We strive for a living world where the players action will produce a tangible change and influence. Your actions from the past may come back to haunt you and your actions scrutinized by those in power, and you may impact the world through daring exploits and deeds.

    Participation-Based XP - The more you participate by running stories as a PRP or ST or by participating in them, the more you earn.

    Staff Openings
    HST for Beast and Mortal+ - Seeking like minded HSTs that will help develop these Spheres in their own direction while keeping with the horror-centric themes the MU is designed around. HSTs are to help facilitate RP and character generation by providing ample plot hooks and juicy, scary scenarios to interact with. They will be in charge of maintaining theme and cohesion of their respective spheres.

    STs for All Spheres - Story Tellers are the backbone of our system. We want like-minded people that will focus on telling their stories (and we want to reward you for it). STs are not expected to handle character approvals, complaints, or involve themselves in “drama” but rather create and run NPCs and stories til their hearts content. We want you to get messy and help the players achieve their goals and impact the world while creating an interesting and challenging environment.

    Coders - Always appreciated. Always.

    Future Plans...
    We will be adding Changeling and Mage when they are released with a setting that adheres to our theme.
    We will not be admitting Hunter, Geist, Demon, Promethean, Mummy, Feral/Changing Breeds, Immortal, or Possessed.

    If you're interested, please contact one or both of the owners via Skype: sigurdingvisson or ragna.jd


  • Pitcrew

    That title and not a single reference to a vagina? Boo!



  • 'Families' makes me cringe. Are there actually people who played on TR (only WoD game I've seen that on, myself) and still think that was a good idea? Seemed to be nothing but cesspools and drama fountains.

    ETA : The wiki appears to be impossible to look at without having a log in?


  • Pitcrew

    I liked the concept of the families, but agree that implementation most of the time was a headache at best and pretty damn shitty at worst. So I played in 3 families and even staffed for one, and if there was a different way of doing it, I'd think it was a good idea!

    I do like the idea of the MCI cult structure, though. I think on a large MUSH (by this I mean a place with many moving parts, as multisphere MUSHes are, not necesarily by population) though it would be tricky. I'm curious to see more of the policy though.

    There were familial groups on TR that were built using the mystery cult mechanics or just playgroups. They seem to have been a little more successful. Probably because in the no-bennies/playgroup ones there were no "free" mechanical benefits for people to try and shoehorn in on just for the benefits when they didn't give a shit about the theme or playing with the other people, each group could decide for themselves amongst themselves who to admit vs. having it need to be open to all and staff moderated.

    And in the case of the MCI groups there usually was a very tight focus.



  • @Tempest said:

    'Families' makes me cringe. Are there actually people who played on TR (only WoD game I've seen that on, myself) and still think that was a good idea? Seemed to be nothing but cesspools and drama fountains.

    ETA : The wiki appears to be impossible to look at without having a log in?

    The wiki is on lock down for a couple of days as we start taking the information from our Drive and assimilating it onto the wiki. If you like, feel free to use the guest account for a sneak peek, just know that none of the information is 100% set in stone, especially as we look for staff to flesh out Beast and Mortal+.

    un: Guest
    pw: guest1

    Regarding Families!

    I put a lot of thought into Families and I have to admit, neither one of us owners played on TR so without a working knowledge of its flaws I can't address them directly.

    Perhaps you would like to list what your concerns were, I would be happy to see about them!

    In the meanwhile, I will give you a brief overview of what we would like to happen with Families:

    • Each family has an associated Sphere, whether it be supernatural or mundane. Being structured like a Mystery Cult, each level gives some sort of mechanical benefit of the non-supernatural kind (unless your family is associated with a supernatural sphere).
    • Each family has secrets and skeletons in the closet and multiple plot hooks to pursue on an individual or group basis. (Though we are hoping people opt for group efforts).
    • Story Tellers can and will use these families to develop story lines. For example, the chief of police is investigating the Swindells (political family) for corruption. You can all pull your resources together and help cover it up or maybe you're a back biter and use this to your advantage to work your way up your own family.
    • At Family 3+ your responsibility begins to reach into ooc levels. We start requiring a certain amount of PRPs each month. While we are young and small, these may encompass more than one family, but after the family reaches 5+ members, we would like these scenes to become family specific. But we also expect this to reach beyond a simple meeting. For example, if you belong to the political family, we expect people to be running for offices so campaigning will be a big part of their scenes.
    • Family cannot be bought past character generations 2nd dot maximum. To get to the next level, one must always coordinate with an ST for scenes. When the family matri/patriarch position is filled by a PC, we will rely on them to be running their family and managing it both IC and OOC.
    • Failure to uphold OOC responsibilities will cause a player to backslide in Family Status to prevent stagnation of the group.

    We realize this opens the door for a bit of social or even physical PvP, which we do not think is necessarily a bad thing. Conflict is the nature of the world of darkness. We just expect people to be mature adults and if we keep players busy enough, hopefully it will narrow the doorway for OOC drama. (However IC drama is welcome).

    @mietze said:

    I liked the concept of the families, but agree that implementation most of the time was a headache at best and pretty damn shitty at worst. So I played in 3 families and even staffed for one, and if there was a different way of doing it, I'd think it was a good idea!

    I do like the idea of the MCI cult structure, though. I think on a large MUSH (by this I mean a place with many moving parts, as multisphere MUSHes are, not necesarily by population) though it would be tricky. I'm curious to see more of the policy though.

    There were familial groups on TR that were built using the mystery cult mechanics or just playgroups. They seem to have been a little more successful. Probably because in the no-bennies/playgroup ones there were no "free" mechanical benefits for people to try and shoehorn in on just for the benefits when they didn't give a shit about the theme or playing with the other people, each group could decide for themselves amongst themselves who to admit vs. having it need to be open to all and staff moderated.

    And in the case of the MCI groups there usually was a very tight focus.

    • You're allowed to start with 1 dot at character generation and the rest you earn in play. You may not buy it willy nilly.
    • As a Mortal+, you have to be part of one of the MCIs. There will be no "renegade" M+'s running around just so we can help facilitate getting them in to meaningful plots and into cohesive units. Mortals won't be allowed, Supernaturals aren't allowed.
    • Each MCI has a specific flavor. We have one that's demon focused and our answer to possessed. We have one that's tech flavored and our answer to the god machine/demon. We have another that's hippy granola flavored and our answer to feral/changing breeds. Another is Alchemy flavored and is our answer to Immortal. Another is our answer to Hunter.

    We also intend on moderating thematics very closely, too and NPCs are going to be monitoring the actions of PCs closely. We don't intend on allowing people to reap the benefits of being in a cult or family for that matter without participating and adhering to a standard. We don't intend on being "elitist" but we don't want to see sparkletwilightvamps either. We want to see scary and while we may reject a character because it doesn't fit the theme of our MU, there will always be an HST or ST waiting to help you make your character fit.



  • I just have one question...

    Why in the -hell- is the Pacific Northwest such a popular place for WoD? I mean, really. What is it about the place?



  • @Derp said:

    I just have one question...

    Why in the -hell- is the Pacific Northwest such a popular place for WoD? I mean, really. What is it about the place?

    Somethingsomethinghipsters?

    I'm really baffled there's no NYC game anywhere.

    I've seen some amazing NYC grids, too, but only on Superhero games.



  • @Tempest

    Someone should make one. Or LA. I would be down with either of those. If I had actual monies, I would even start one.


  • Pitcrew

    NYC games get tried with regularity for some reason they never stick very long.



  • But back to the point of the thing here, since I managed to slightly derail us...

    I think that this is a good idea in theory, provided you have sufficient staff with sufficient communication. But as we've already seen from other games that start out with staffers saying 'We are gonna do all the things and do them well', shit happens. It's a fact of life. RL will bite you in the ass when you least expect it, and suddenly all that very personal attention becomes extremely taxing and time-consuming. It's very high maintenance, and I think that without some kind of backup plan, you might be short lived.

    Prepare for that point as if it were an inevitability, and either be well prepared when it does happen, or pleasantly surprised when it doesn't. But don't have so much relying on direct staff attention. That's bound for disaster. See the recent stuff with RfK and the slowdown in staff things on Eldritch for examples.



  • @Derp said:

    But back to the point of the thing here, since I managed to slightly derail us...

    I think that this is a good idea in theory, provided you have sufficient staff with sufficient communication. But as we've already seen from other games that start out with staffers saying 'We are gonna do all the things and do them well', shit happens. It's a fact of life. RL will bite you in the ass when you least expect it, and suddenly all that very personal attention becomes extremely taxing and time-consuming. It's very high maintenance, and I think that without some kind of backup plan, you might be short lived.

    Prepare for that point as if it were an inevitability, and either be well prepared when it does happen, or pleasantly surprised when it doesn't. But don't have so much relying on direct staff attention. That's bound for disaster. See the recent stuff with RfK and the slowdown in staff things on Eldritch for examples.

    We considered NYC, but I have played on many an NYC game that has left a bad taste in my mouth. :( I didn't think Portland had been done though!

    As for setting up the game to work without staff, we all kinda feel that it's not a game at that point. Someone (or a team of someones) need to be working to create it. None of us really like to game in MUs that are set up like that.

    But that being said, yes, I agree we need staff (and lots of them) that are highly communicative with us. That's why we are advertising for staffers here on MUSoapbox. So far we have 3 definite HSTs and 8 possibly interested STs that are waiting for us to get set up that have not taken up "assignments" as of yet. We are definitely looking for more, as I doubt the full 8 will hop on board staff at the very beginning. :)



  • So the plan for mortals is for the staffer basically to put shit in the way of them achieving their Aspirations, right? How are you going to get players to write good Aspirations?


  • Pitcrew

    I love M/M+. I usually can find plenty to do and/or shop around for. Not a fan of being forced to pick a group in Cg that I'm beholden to before I even get a chance to see where I'm going with the PC.



  • You will also find that Demon is an extremely paperwork intensive game that requires an annoyingly high level of bookkeeping (as a friend recently put it, understating it somewhat), especially if they team up on something. Legend (and all permutations thereof) is an extreme pain in the ass to track, and some of the Embeds/Exploits are just... woah. (Yes, fucking Urban Legend, I'm looking at you.) So, you know. Be prepared for that. I wasn't, and I'll admit, Demons are much better at breaking the fucking game than any Mage I've ever seen played, and mages are good at that.

    So much paperwork...



  • Sorry for the delay in response, I got rather sick!

    I plan on helping people create their aspirations by simply talking to them and helping them decide on the best way to go about developing their character and being sensible and understanding and taking a genuine interest in people that are playing on the MU as well as their characters. I will be looking for STs that feel the same and don't view their job as just throwing up obstacles and getting in the way of development and achieving goals, but rather as collaborators in writing a narrative.

    It's true, the world is fraught with obstacles and horror and it's not going to be made "easy" for you (because that's no fun!) but rather developmental for both setting and characters. A stagnant world (and/or PCs) are not fun for anyone and in the interest of a healthy game, we want to provide an active world that is both driven by PCs efforts (and therefore their Aspirations) as well as the world/setting.

    Mietze & Derp: As for M/M+, you always have the option of CGing as a Mortal and then working your way into the Mortal+ venue.
    Instead of these Mystery Cults being things you worship in the strict sense, they are rather organizations with information or bits of occutic power and each M+ MC is a flavor of "how" you got your M+ powers.
    For example, if it's from being possessed by a Demon. The reasons Derp listed are some of the reasons why we don't want to play Demon the way it's written for 2.0. We don't like the power creep and the thematic. We aren't fans of god-robots, so instead we wanted to give the game a different flavor by introducing an M+ cult that allows you to take on more and more demons via possession in the Abrahemic sense that is more reminiscent of oWoD.

    Through becoming imbued with these spirits, you gain your M+ powers.

    We understand, however, what Mietze is saying, its hard to jump into a character that is beholden to a Mystery Cult when you don't know anyone or what they really stand for, but we hope the perks of being involved from the get-go with an organization that has some form of plot and impact in the world will outweigh the leap of faith we are asking of M+ players. Eventually, we hope the higher up PCs will be mentors of sorts for the new comers, too, adding more dynamic to IC relationships and RP opportunities.

    There's also, of course, the option of creating your own Cult through roleplay and breaking away from these initial groups. We are really excited to see what the players come up with in this regard!


  • TV & Movies

    @Derp said:

    You will also find that Demon is an extremely paperwork intensive game that requires an annoyingly high level of bookkeeping (as a friend recently put it, understating it somewhat), especially if they team up on something. Legend (and all permutations thereof) is an extreme pain in the ass to track, and some of the Embeds/Exploits are just... woah. (Yes, fucking Urban Legend, I'm looking at you.) So, you know. Be prepared for that. I wasn't, and I'll admit, Demons are much better at breaking the fucking game than any Mage I've ever seen played, and mages are good at that.

    So much paperwork...

    I didn't think Demon was that intensive for bookingkeeping at all. The player sets notes on themselves and its taken care of. For Legend, have a Legend note. A single locked note is all that's required with the stats raised and the number of times it has accumulated a penalty. Urban Legend, same thing. A single note. Its really simple if you take it very simply.

    Demon complicates games by the way in which it alters other characters so easily and often, specifically the relationship to those characters. But again, just adding and altering notes seems easy. The player does all the work. Staff just has to lock and unlock.


  • Pitcrew

    @nyctophiliac said:

    Each family has an associated Sphere, whether it be supernatural or mundane. Being structured like a Mystery Cult, each level gives some sort of mechanical benefit of the non-supernatural kind (unless your family is associated with a supernatural sphere).
    Each family has secrets and skeletons in the closet and multiple plot hooks to pursue on an individual or group basis. (Though we are hoping people opt for group efforts).
    Story Tellers can and will use these families to develop story lines. For example, the chief of police is investigating the Swindells (political family) for corruption. You can all pull your resources together and help cover it up or maybe you're a back biter and use this to your advantage to work your way up your own family.
    At Family 3+ your responsibility begins to reach into ooc levels. We start requiring a certain amount of PRPs each month. While we are young and small, these may encompass more than one family, but after the family reaches 5+ members, we would like these scenes to become family specific. But we also expect this to reach beyond a simple meeting. For example, if you belong to the political family, we expect people to be running for offices so campaigning will be a big part of their scenes.
    Family cannot be bought past character generations 2nd dot maximum. To get to the next level, one must always coordinate with an ST for scenes. When the family matri/patriarch position is filled by a PC, we will rely on them to be running their family and managing it both IC and OOC.
    Failure to uphold OOC responsibilities will cause a player to backslide in Family Status to prevent stagnation of the group.

    I think people are bristling at this structure because its almost identical how The Reach handled families. They were Mystery Cults and faction specific and were obligated to cloak and dagger secret keeping based on family status ranking, which was also a numerical system. They were also supposed to be heavily guided by staff oversight, with specific plot, and family/individual member consequences for exposing the families to undue risks.

    That... lasted for about 10 minutes. And for the next 3-4 years, families went really, really, really poorly. So, while you say you never played at TR, this looks a lot like the TR family structure in a lot of ways. And maybe you didn't, because the family cults all harboring secrets isn't by any means a new trope in gaming...

    But families like this just don't work unless you intend to heavily police, limit participation, and micromanage them as staffers.



  • @Derp said:

    You will also find that Demon is an extremely paperwork intensive game that requires an annoyingly high level of bookkeeping (as a friend recently put it, understating it somewhat), especially if they team up on something. Legend (and all permutations thereof) is an extreme pain in the ass to track, and some of the Embeds/Exploits are just... woah. (Yes, fucking Urban Legend, I'm looking at you.) So, you know. Be prepared for that. I wasn't, and I'll admit, Demons are much better at breaking the fucking game than any Mage I've ever seen played, and mages are good at that.

    So much paperwork...

    I hate these statements... You can break combat / social with a vampire just as easy. Why is this concept so hard for people to grasp?



  • @nyctophiliac said:

    What: In Places Deep
    Where: IPDMu - inplacesdeep.com:666
    Status: Not Active Yet (Live Date TBD)
    Web: http://www.inplacesdeep.com

    We are seeking a variety of staffers (and players) for an nWoD 2.0 Mu that (for now) features Beast, Mortal, Mortal +, Vampire, and Werewolf (incl. Pure).

    IPD is a horror-ccentric roleplaying mush based in the city of Portland, Oregon that revolves around the eternal conflict of the forces of darkness.

    Choose between...

    Beast - The coming of the Dark Mother has been rumored all about the city ever since she was reputedly witnessed gliding around the top of Mt. Hood. Her children are broken into Quasi-Political factions to deal with her eventual return.

    Mortal - The hustle and bustle of the city and its denizens goes on much as it has for the last decade, but in the shadow of the skyscrapers and eerie silence of the woods, darker things yet lurk and wait to be discovered... and released. Mortals of this sphere will become a living part of classical horror, they will encounter ghosts and goblins and terrors, the things that go bump in the night. These people are your average men and woman, and this is not a power fantasy, it's a tale of horror.

    Mortal+ - In the world of mortals, few manage a brush with the supernatural and live to remember the tale, but among those few who straddle both worlds, there are stranger things, cults and rituals and rites to peer behind the veil. Mortals of this Sphere will Focus on the mystery cults and the vagaries of the god machine - and stranger things still, demons and monsters from beyond.

    Vampire - The Scholar Prince spends his time among his books and the city has broken into ordered chaos. Warlords have claimed land as regents and create the only law, Draugr have taken over parts of the city and the Strix have been sighted more often as of late. As ever, the corrupt Seneschal proclaims the nights beginning, even as talk of revolt is whispered in all the corners of the city.

    Werewolf - The Idigams are free and have unleashed their wrath on the city. These ancient foes of Urfarah beckon for challenge and destruction, the Pure and Forsaken alike have joined forces to combat the alliance of these mutual foes. The Urdaga guard the gauntlet as always and the Anshega howl at these insults to their Father, but will it be enough?

    Other Awesome Tidbits!

    Families - The various families of Portland have been personally designed by the HSTs of the venue in order to provide supported social interaction and stories. Unlike many MU*s these are structured like mystery cults, participation will be rewarded with power, authority and benefits and each will receive an ST to facilitate interaction.

    Power - Social climbing is a mainstay of our game and will be thoroughly supported in all spheres (But obviously more of a focus in some over others). Politics will be very difficult and dangerous but rewarding and require exquisite RP and attention to truly master. It will not be a game for the faint of heart. We are not going to rely on a “Popularity Contest” system but on the personal attention of the staff.

    Creativity - Players are encouraged to own, construct buildings and change the features of the city through their own RP experience. We strive for a living world where the players action will produce a tangible change and influence. Your actions from the past may come back to haunt you and your actions scrutinized by those in power, and you may impact the world through daring exploits and deeds.

    Participation-Based XP - The more you participate by running stories as a PRP or ST or by participating in them, the more you earn.

    Staff Openings
    HST for Beast and Mortal+ - Seeking like minded HSTs that will help develop these Spheres in their own direction while keeping with the horror-centric themes the MU is designed around. HSTs are to help facilitate RP and character generation by providing ample plot hooks and juicy, scary scenarios to interact with. They will be in charge of maintaining theme and cohesion of their respective spheres.

    STs for All Spheres - Story Tellers are the backbone of our system. We want like-minded people that will focus on telling their stories (and we want to reward you for it). STs are not expected to handle character approvals, complaints, or involve themselves in “drama” but rather create and run NPCs and stories til their hearts content. We want you to get messy and help the players achieve their goals and impact the world while creating an interesting and challenging environment.

    Coders - Always appreciated. Always.

    Future Plans...
    We will be adding Changeling and Mage when they are released with a setting that adheres to our theme.
    We will not be admitting Hunter, Geist, Demon, Promethean, Mummy, Feral/Changing Breeds, Immortal, or Possessed.

    If you're interested, please contact one or both of the owners via Skype: sigurdingvisson or ragna.jd

    Looking forward to the game and wish you guys the best of luck.


  • Admin

    @nyctophiliac said:

    Politics will be very difficult and dangerous but rewarding and require exquisite RP and attention to truly master. It will not be a game for the faint of heart. We are not going to rely on a “Popularity Contest” system but on the personal attention of the staff.

    I just wanted to go over this now that I've had a chance to go over your guys' pitch.

    While the idea is sound and obviously well intended, that kind of thing tends to scale up very poorly in practice; maintaining the attention to detail required to do a good job going over such a dynamic thing as the relationships between characters is very tricky and quite draining on staff resources.

    On top of that unless you have a really good idea on the implementation - in which case I'd love to read about it if you care to share - there's always the chance that over time this good intention will backfire by becoming a bottleneck. In other words, as your staff members become burned out, have real life to take care of, have to focus their attention on doing +jobs, etc your players may start finding it difficult to advance in such areas since so much of your personal attention is required to keep track of who's doing what with/to whom.

    And if that wasn't tough enough, each time your staff roster is renewed (A quits, B is hired to do A's old job) the continuity of all this will be disrupted especially since ongoing documentation is a bitch to ensure happens in MU* (hell, it barely happens in many RL paying jobs).

    How are you planning to achieve this?


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