Griggs, LaVey & Sabbat, Spirals and evil bastards everywhere

  • Pitcrew

    This post is deleted!

  • I can't remember which game it was on, but a decade ago or so, I played a Nephandi for the express purpose of letting the good guys take him down. I did everything I could OOCly to leave clues, encourage confrontation, etc. For some reason, it made people avoid me. :(

  • @LittleLizard said:

    Did you used to play a bad guy, a sabbat, a BSD, and other such things? I'm trying to get ahold of you. We're attempting to revitalize an old MUSH and it allows bad guys to be bad guys and good guys to be good guys.

    The following is not meant to be a put-down.

    Whenever I see advertisements like this, I cringe. This is because, for the most part, these players' idea of "evil" is nothing more than the sort of repetitive, silly gore-fest or fuck-fest that you'd find in a bad 80s horror movie. I just don't find that kind of horror interesting.

    I love playing a Sabbat PC, and I love the concept, but there's very few people who appreciate the process of degeneration, and therefore create "evil" characters that are more caricature than believable.

  • Pitcrew

    Given that you want players like LaVey I can only ask you tell me what game this is so I can avoid the hell out if it. If he is your example of being a descent people OOC we have strong disagreements on what that term means. My two interactions with him were both rather poor.
    In the first I was in an outdoor scene in public during IC day light hours, he and some cronies barged in and started posing over the scene going on with out asking about the IC time or if those present minded shifting away from +time indication of daylight and 2 p.m. Then got indignant when it was pointed out that it was the middle of the day and left in a huff. For record had he asked, hey mind if we shift this to night so we can join the answer would have been yes.
    In the second, he mocked me OOCly for having my changeling character leave a scene with a bunch of vamps, for the record that changeling was pretty much an asshole who would have fit in but banality doesn't care. When I tried to OOCly explain why the character was leaving there was more mocking. So again if that is your idea of decent OOC people please left me know the game so I can avoid like the plague.

    Griggs however I would give a thumbs up to he was good OOC people.

  • Pitcrew

    The only CWoD antagonist splat I can countenance playing are Sabbat, because they're the only ones I can think of off of the top of my head that retain free will.

    And no, the Vinculum is not a blood bond. It creates ties that bind, yes, but if you read the way it works it does not ever compel obedience, not even at Vinc 10. "Die for" does not equal "abject servitude."

    Everything else are, more or less, slaves.

    Also, the Sabbat/BSD alliance is bullshit, especially considering that the Sabbat is actually the place where you would FIND spiritually-inclined blood magicians who would twig to the BSDs being infernalists. Both Serpents of the Light and Kolduns have the knowledge-base to understand exactly what's going on in THAT shitshow.

  • I've played a few antagonists in my time. Inevitably I was killed by the good guys because I tried to play fair and didn't want to run their fun.

    So they promptly played dirty and ruined my fun. Filthy good guys.

  • Also, there is the issue of knowing the good/bad exists, but not their location.

  • My issue with playing the bad guy has always mainly been that people get upset OOC if their char isn't loved by everyone. And the swarm of 'heroes' who jump on taking out a bad guy practically instantly.

  • The sabbat are the bad guys?!

  • @icanbeyourmuse said:

    And the swarm of 'heroes' who jump on taking out a bad guy practically instantly.

    ^ All the this. ^ I have no issues with not being 'loved', I have no illusions that anyone in this hobby feels that strongly about me one way or the other. But that will halt my urge to play the bad guy in about 2.35 seconds. I don't care if the bit gets killed, or loses. They're the bad guy, they're supposed to lose/be killed. What annoys me and drives away all interest is knowing that every White Hat out there is going to be avidly looking for the bad guys and will use the flimsiest of IC excuses to gather up their friends to go play a round of Gaston and the villagers.

  • Then be a villain. Take hostages, blackmail, make people do horrid things to prevent other horrid things. Corrupt and destroy.

  • The issue is that you can't be Gaston and obviously evil. You have to be Hans (or perhaps Palpatine), and be lovable while planning all your evil shit out of sight and hit people when they least expect it. Preferably in a manner that the other good guys don't have the chance of an OOC Masq breach to realize you're totes mcgoats evil.

  • Pitcrew

    Which disenfranchises people and makes them quit playing.

    Also, it doesn't help if your "trusted" antagonist players turn into complete dicks the instant you turn your back, like they liked doing to Escalus.

    Or that they get more staff support than the main game because "they need it more."

  • You can always go the Custodius route of playing the bad guy AND playing a white hat that insinuates himself into every group opposing the bad guy so you can see what they're planning against you.

  • Pretty much exactly what @Jennkryst and @The-Tree-of-Woe mentioned. You can't be an obviously evil sort without immediately getting dogpiled by 20 Dudley Do-Rights for daring to so much as let out a malicious snicker. You HAVE to be the low-key, long-term insidiously evil mastermind that is so well hidden that nobody realizes it until the big reveal. And there's two things immediately wrong with that to me.

    1. I don't always want to play an insidiously evil mastermind. Sometimes I just want to go set shit on fire.
    2. You still have to be uber-paranoid about any and everyone you meet OOCly finding out that you're the Big Evil and blabbing it to everyone and their Mighty Mouse brother who will 'suddenly have an epiphany' and come to gank your ass because you're wearing black and thus are EEEEEEEEEEEEEVIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLL!!

    There's a lot of work that goes into those long-term planning motherfuckers. I'm not always up for crafting a 3 year business model for an evil empire while playing sweet and innocent to the masses. More often than not I'd rather Joker up and toss some bombs, plant some poisons, throw a few acidic pies... and spend 4-5 months cooling my heels in whatever looney bin serves as my second home before I check myself out for another spree of madness and chaos!

  • Pitcrew


    Like they liked doing to Escalus? How so? It's been years since I was at Metro/related, but you've piqued my curiosity.

  • Pitcrew

    @hedgehog Metro maintained a strict OOC Masq, and whenever Escalus wasn't logged in, his hand-picked Nephandi players would take advantage of it to troll the Mage channel. His Technocracy players could be real dicks, but they didn't troll OOC, I'll give them that.

  • Our common conception of a bad guys is a foil for the protagonist. Players usually decline to define themselves around the other players that way. A ST has no such limit as they only play their antagonists once in a while and leave the rest to their and the players imaginations. So the bad guys have to be good guys whose methods and or goals are not yours. Two sides of a war, that sort of thing.

  • Pitcrew


    Oh, right...didn't everyone have to have a channel alias, or something?

  • Pitcrew


    Yes. A lot of people didn't like Escalus. I did--he loves Mage, and even though I would do some things differently, I respect it.

    But Jesus Christ, would people take advantage of that man.

    Honestly I never would've quit if Shallow wasn't an odious, racist cunt.

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