Vietnam War MUSH



  • How about a MUSH that takes the history of the Vietnam War, the epic struggle of fighting communists in the jungles of a foreign country, and applies it to another theme, to avoid the negative connotation of race?

    It was Wing Commander: Red Horizon's under-theme, for me, and I'd love to see a new one. Space: Above and Beyond, maybe, where you could play a USMC unit, fighting charlie, in the jungle?



  • I personally am not sure how well received this would be. The war in Vietnam was fucking horrific and I, for one, probably wouldn't play on a game with this as its theme, even if only for inspiration. If you want to do a space-themed game then by all means, please do. But just skip the Vietnam history.


  • Admin

    @TiredEwok said in Vietnam War MUSH:

    I personally am not sure how well received this would be. The war in Vietnam was fucking horrific

    Although you're entitled to your opinions I'm not sure I follow. WW1 and WW2 were both pretty damn horrific as well, and true atrocities were committed, yet there are games based on those.



  • What are the aspects of the Viet Nam war or the World Wars that would be presented?

    Under supported troops?
    Conscripts?
    A major power in a proxy war?
    Unpopular war at home?
    Atrocities?
    Supporting a civil war?
    War amidst a different people?
    Heightened media reporting of warfare?
    Asymmetrical warfare?
    War as a crucible for social issues?

    The sci-fi comic Alien Legion sort of covered some these situations.



  • @Arkandel

    You are not wrong. Fuck. War is horrific, period.



  • I took a fantastic class on the Vietnam War at UMass, I learned a lot of elements of it that were outside of traditional media.

    You had patrol quotients, that had artillery support and aerial reconnaissance, meant to capture certain 'hardpoints', bases of command, for helicopter airborne infantry to drop into position, to eliminate a VC position before NVA could establish a 'sit-op', a situational operational command, for movement deeper into the bush.

    You had traps laid by Vietnamese communist guerillas in villages, all women who had lost husbands to the war, meant to slow the advance of maneuver of American or especially ARVN troops.

    You had the agromill strategy, established by the CIA, to move Vietnamese civilians away from farmland necessary for patrol quadrants, sectors of Vietnamese command on either side, and the agromills were notoriously corrupt in terms of bribes to managing ARVN and South Vietnamese Catholics, they were a starvation epidemic situation. Meanwhile, the vacated land, was considered a 'free fire zone', where anyone was an enemy combatant for being inside it, without American tags, even ARVN and South Korean Army needed clearance.

    You also had a high degree of defection or enemy sympathy with everyone, even Americans (Mao Mao movement) in Vietnam, mercenaries were the only reliable troops for 'heavy point artillery', use of infantry as anti-personnel stage clearance.

    The worst thing about Americans, for the entire war's attempted victory, was the high reliance on 'USO culture', the Hollywood comedians and showmen, that alienated foreign troops among American soldiers from the American forces, even Green Berets, who forbade it for their units, attendance to a USO show. The North Vietnamese, had attached poets and musicians and artists, on patrol, and it was a highly sought after position.



  • I am legitimately confused by your reference to sci-fi games in the OP. Are you asking if a game literally set during the Vietnam War would be a good idea, or are you asking if a sci-fi game with a setting that resembled it would be?

    For the former, no. I don't think there's a tasteful way to handle that even under the helm of someone who had a lot more expertise on the subject, to be frank.


  • Pitcrew

    I think that games which involve RL-wars are usually a bad look. Not to mention with the Vietnam War, our government did some truly awful things to their people and our own people.

    If you need more reference, Google Agent Orange. Or don't.



  • This is a troubleshooter trick used by mobster stockbrokers.

    We take the surface, and look at the elements we can see, that are apparent to us alone, at the time of the analysis of the surface layer.

    We put them all in a lexicon, all these elements, and then we put the elements back in, with a new surface layer, something else, like a sci-fi theme.


  • Pitcrew

    There are and have been historical games set in horrific time periods, though usually they have some degree of sanitizing or go alt-history to avoid some misunderstandings of what is desired on the game.

    I think a game like this would appeal to a very limited player base, but there would be people out there that might go for it. You would have to be very clear about what kind of show you'd be running though. In my experience on military -esque games you need to get clear boundaries of what to expect as far as ic structure, any handwaving of RL culture that is probably going to happen, if its going to be heavily personal story based vs battle scenes and mini strategy game, ect. Because a mix of very different expectations in that regard blows up real quick due to the people it attracts.



  • @Chet said in Vietnam War MUSH:

    This is a troubleshooter trick used by mobster stockbrokers.

    We take the surface, and look at the elements we can see, that are apparent to us alone, at the time of the analysis of the surface layer.

    We put them all in a lexicon, all these elements, and then we put the elements back in, with a new surface layer, something else, like a sci-fi theme.

    ...Translated from Chet-ese, "Yeah, I wanted to adapt a sci-fi setting."

    Right?



  • Well if you don't want a professional proclivity analysis, that's what it means.



  • Hahaha, no, just as a general rule of thumb most of us would expect a straight answer to the question.



  • I don't always know if the straightforward answer suffices, man, I need to spell it out simplistically, so it doesn't impede anyone's processes, but very specifically.

    And then, everyone gets the vision of, whoa, MUSHers are in the Japanese Mafia.


  • Pitcrew

    @Chet said in Vietnam War MUSH:

    How about a MUSH that takes the history of the Vietnam War, the epic struggle of fighting communists in the jungles of a foreign country, and applies it to another theme, to avoid the negative connotation of race?

    Race is not the only negative connotation to the Vietnam War, so depending on why you're trying to avoid negativity, this seems like a half-measure.



  • Vietnam War had a shit ton of wrong in it, starting from how the conflict began. It showcases the terrible results of American and European Imperialism, the horrors of military doctrine of body counts, the lack of care of the native population (yet again) just to fight a proxy war on foreign lands, the might of the military industrial complex that has no care for Americans or foreigners, general warc crimes and atrocities committed without a second thought, etc.

    There was nothing good about the Vietnam War to play about.



  • Simplify the issue.

    Make a MUSH about the danger of a deregulated national banking system, enabling a military industrial complex's munitions production industry to control national events.



  • Chet, speaking plainly but trying to be respectful, I don't think you're in the right state of mind to run a game like this.



  • As a communist I personally wouldn't appreciate a game if it bordered on Red Scare.



  • I've never been able to run a game, I'm just design concept theory. I only know systems strategems and how to apply them, not the actual interlocking and administration of any of it.


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