The Fate of MUSHdom



  • Hey guys, here I am with another survey. This time, it's about ensuring the longevity of a slowly dying hobby. If that is a project you could see yourself getting behind, click below to read more and answer a quick question. Thanks!

    https://www.cognitoforms.com/MuHaven1/SaveMUSHdomSurvey


  • Pitcrew

    @jetfire_158

    Unless the survey tells you how many people clicked the link and then didn't reply you'll have an issue.

    You see there is no option for no contribution. So you won't get an accurate idea of how many people in the hobby wouldn't support the idea financially.

    You also didn't ask about the survey takers inclination to the idea, knowing if people will oppose you is probably more valuable than if you can make 1000/month on the idea.



  • I'd also need more information.

    What is the site?
    How is it introducing people?
    Is it specifically for MUSH? Would it include MOO? MUD?
    Would it have tutorials or just be a game listing like mudconnect?
    Would it be pay-to-list? Or just pay-to-advertise? (Because paying to support adspace and then also paying to have your game listed would be kinda ehhh)



  • I like to see innovative ideas, but I don't think this is a sound proposition.

    It's all well and good to say "advertise and get more players", but those players need to have somewhere to play, and those games need to be able to support the influx. MUSHes don't scale well, primarily due to limited staff bandwidth. You can't fix that by dumping a bunch of inexperienced new players into the mix.

    Also the idea of onboarding new players is noble, but MUSHes are so very different. I question how effective it can really be at preparing people to play a real game.


  • Pitcrew

    You need an option for "nope, wouldn't support it financially"


  • Pitcrew

    Also missing the $1-$5 option.


  • Pitcrew

    @JinShei said in The Fate of MUSHdom:

    You need an option for "nope, wouldn't support it financially"

    And also the "I already spend a few bucks a month paying for a MUSH*" option.

    *And/or a MUSH-resource site like MSB, Ares, PennMUSH, etc.


  • Pitcrew

    It would also need to be headed up and managed by someone reputable, with a demonstration of understanding the consequences of advertisement, and a plan on how to handle that. Giving random strangers money to bring in players games are not prepared to receive? No thank you.



  • This really isn't an advertisement. Semi constructive seems like a better place.


  • Pitcrew

    Also, mushing isn’t dying. That’s fake news.



  • @TNP

    Done. Moved.



  • @faraday said in The Fate of MUSHdom:

    I like to see innovative ideas, but I don't think this is a sound proposition.

    It's all well and good to say "advertise and get more players", but those players need to have somewhere to play, and those games need to be able to support the influx. MUSHes don't scale well, primarily due to limited staff bandwidth. You can't fix that by dumping a bunch of inexperienced new players into the mix.

    Also the idea of onboarding new players is noble, but MUSHes are so very different. I question how effective it can really be at preparing people to play a real game.

    Faraday's right on the money here. I struggle to support the players I currently have which are generally very familiar with MUs and comfortable being relatively self-sufficient. My game would not be able to handle it if I spammed like gigantic non-MU rp forums with ads and had several hundred brand new 'how do I MU?' type players show up. Pure sandboxes and MUDs can handle loads like that but most of the games talked about on here are not that, so it's pretty hard to do.



  • Strictly from anecdotal observation from talking to Guests (so, largely useless! but) the MudConnector is still pretty widely used as a search engine for players just looking for games. It could be better maintained than it is, but I feel like there are more usability and cultural hurdles for new players than there is a real problem with not having a dedicated MU listing.


  • Pitcrew

    If I were a game runner I would be pretty leery of paying for a service like this. Or even participating in something more similar to groupon for games, after seeing how having an influx of clients that you didn't anticipate and could not accommodate at the pace that they expect can impact a business in RL.

    I get how this might be an attractive business venture for the people arranging it, but there are just a lot of consequences for increasing volume that a lot of people do not think about.

    The rush and influx of people who come in to create new bits and join a game even when it's just advertised here can be a game killer, especially after the 6-8 weeks for the new shiny to wear off and people wander away or get mad that they aren't being entertained as much as they think they should be, especially if staff was excitedly running a lot of stuff at first but then quickly burnt out by needs and wants of a population that was double or more what they planned for. Or people get super excited and run a bunch of stuff until the novelty wears off and then disappear, which can make others feel like the game is suddenly "dying" when in fact it's just that the super active RP/scenerunners burned out quickly and there was a mistaken impression of the /base/ activity level of the game.

    I just do not think you'll have enough buy in from game runners in order to monetize this. (Note, I'm not saying it's wrong to monetize your work or your coordination.) I think maybe if one wants to expand access to MUing then the focus should be less at first on finding players and more supporting and empowering game creators/runners, to expand the number and diversity of offerings first, because otherwise you're likely to decrease the quality of the experience if you stuff 3x more people into the same games.

    To that end I think stuff like Ares that puts the ability to run a game into more diverse hands in a plug and play format does much more to help sustain MUing than advertisements on social media.


  • Pitcrew

    @Three-Eyed-Crow said in The Fate of MUSHdom:

    Strictly from anecdotal observation from talking to Guests (so, largely useless! but) the MudConnector is still pretty widely used as a search engine for players just looking for games. It could be better maintained than it is, but I feel like there are more usability and cultural hurdles for new players than there is a real problem with not having a dedicated MU listing.

    This is my experience as well, going back to the late 90's. Unfortunately, TMC has not updated since January so am unsure of the future of the site.



  • @Three-Eyed-Crow said in The Fate of MUSHdom:

    the MudConnector is still pretty widely used as a search engine for players just looking for games. It could be better maintained than it is, but I feel like there are more usability and cultural hurdles for new players than there is a real problem with not having a dedicated MU listing.

    Spot on. Especially since Evennia and Ares also now have automatic game directories. I don't think finding a game is the big hurdle here.

    The bigger issue is getting a game off the ground. Just within the Ares community, there are 10 never-launched games for every opened one. Some moved on to other platforms, which is totally cool. But a good many of them gave up before ever getting their game off the ground.

    There are lots of reasons why:

    • Building a game is a lot of work for a hobby activity.
    • Staffing is overwhelming and they don't have enough support.
    • MUSHing is fraught with interpersonal drama and they get discouraged.
    • They have expectations of what code they want that even Ares' complete game-in-a-box design can't satisfy, and no ability to realize their vision.
    • They start working on the code but it's just too much work and they eventually burn out.

    Making these issues better will result in more games. More games will provide bandwidth to absorb more players. Only then might it make sense to talk about casting a wider net of general recruitment.


  • Tutorialist

    @mietze said in The Fate of MUSHdom:

    If I were a game runner I would be pretty leery of paying for a service like this. Or even participating in something more similar to groupon for games, after seeing how having an influx of clients that you didn't anticipate and could not accommodate at the pace that they expect can impact a business in RL.

    Here's the big, open secret: MUSH isn't dying. It's just becoming more exclusive and tribal. There are plenty of games out there. They just aren't as widely advertised. Many games are unlisted. Most of those are invite-only. I know of at least a half dozen offhand. There are probably many more that I don't know about.

    Size was an issue. Clashing personalities was an issue. Entitlement was an issue. That's how some people solved it.


  • Pitcrew

    @Derp said in The Fate of MUSHdom:

    It's just becoming more exclusive and tribal.

    Like everything else in society.


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