Landlord Bitching



  • Bitch about landlords here, please.


  • Pitcrew

    @Aria said in Covid-19 Gallows Humor:

    #Camacho2020 -- At least he'd listen to the smartest guy in the room.

    I've been saying that for four years.

    alt text


  • Pitcrew

    Fuck landlords.



  • Considering Texas is refusing to acknowledge any eviction notices right now and it's a standing thing for 60 days.... He's SOL.


  • Pitcrew

    @GreenFlashlight why fuck landlords? What exactly is the alternative?


  • Pitcrew

    I can't help but feel bad for literally everyone in that situation - including the landlord. He still has to pay property taxes. It's down the line, but this could take a major chunk out of his own living.


  • Pitcrew

    @silverfox he probably also has to pay a mortgage and all of his own bills


  • Pitcrew

    @bear_necessities said in Covid-19 Gallows Humor:

    @GreenFlashlight why fuck landlords?

    I oppose the idea that anyone's income must go to someone who provides me something you will die without, something literally forming the foundation of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. I think it is outright criminal that there are more empty houses in America than there are homeless people (and this might be true worldwide as well; I forget), because it means that the body count of every person in this country who has ever died of exposure is less horrific to landlords than the idea of people not paying them for the privilege of not dying. Every person who dies homeless was murdered by the people who put profit over the sanctity of human life.

    Less pressingly but just as infuriatingly, I do not believe landlords actually provide a good or service in return for the rent they are paid, because the costs of business are funded one hundred percent by the rent tenants pay, which means the only thing a landlord does to earn a check is come unclog your sink as part of you paying I'm guessing a thousand bucks a month, or maybe picks up a phone to call someone else to fix your problem and act as a middleman who for some reason deserves half your income in perpetuity.

    What exactly is the alternative?

    Guaranteed housing. Just give people houses. I know that's hard to imagine under capitalism, but seriously, the only thing stopping us from letting people live in houses is the fact that we want our fellows to die if they don't make enough money to please our overlords. There is literally nothing in the world stopping us from giving every living human the relative comfort and dignity of a home except for the murderous greed that tells us our landlords should have the power of life and death over us unless we tithe to their coffers.

    You ask what the alternative is to letting millions of people die of exposure every year, and my mouth drops open a little bit because I can't for my life imagine why you think that is an unavoidable outcome rather than one cultivated by greedy fuckwits who think that owning land is more important than human life.

    EDIT: I just noticed the above complaint, and begrudgingly agree that this is not the thread to discuss landlords. I don't know how to spoiler tag this post, so I will leave it here as my answer, but I will not reply further in this thread to questions about my stance on landlords.


  • Tutorialist

    @GreenFlashlight said in Covid-19 Gallows Humor:

    : I just noticed the above complaint, and begrudgingly agree that this is not the thread to discuss landlords. I don't know how to spoiler tag this post, so I will leave it here as my answer, but I will not reply further in this thread to questions about my stance on landlords.

    I mean, it's probably a decent topic for some thread. Might just ask a mod like @Ganymede to split it off.



  • @GreenFlashlight

    I can appreciate a spot of idealism, but I draw the line with unsupported suppositions. I am willing to go out on a limb and say that you, like the vast majority of people here, have no idea of what it is like to live in a non-capitalist country. We should talk a little about places like China.

    I oppose the idea that anyone's income must go to someone who provides me something you will die without, something literally forming the foundation of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

    Below security needs are physiological needs. Among physiological needs is the need to eat. I presume you do not oppose the idea that someone's income must go to farmers; however, if you do, I would be interested in learning what you think this outbreak of COVID-19 is going to do for the Nebraska corn harvest.

    Every person who dies homeless was murdered by the people who put profit over the sanctity of human life.

    Joe Murphy is probably going to die homeless, but it isn't because people have not tried to give him free housing. That said, I know several people without homes at the moment, and while I might want to open my house to them my partner would likely object because she doesn't know them and may be concerned for our kids' safety.

    I do not believe landlords actually provide a good or service in return for the rent they are paid, because the costs of business are funded one hundred percent by the rent tenants pay, which means the only thing a landlord does to earn a check is come unclog your sink as part of you paying I'm guessing a thousand bucks a month, or maybe picks up a phone to call someone else to fix your problem and act as a middleman who for some reason deserves half your income in perpetuity.

    I have a client who was physically and emotionally abused by an affluent ex-husband. She ended up getting a million dollars in her divorce decree, and used half of that to build up her real estate "empire," which consists of a couple of dozen single-family houses. She rents these to veterans, folks with disabilities, minorities, and others. After paying expenses related to maintaining the properties, she makes around $50,000 a year, which she lives on along with her pension as a former school bus driver.

    She knows each and every one of her tenants on a first name basis. She does most of the repairs herself. For some of the disabled tenants, she helps them get groceries now and again. Over the years I have handled her evictions, and some of the shit she puts up with is this side of saintly.

    But she's a landlord, right? So she has to be a piece of shit, if you are to be believed.

    There is literally nothing in the world stopping us from giving every living human the relative comfort and dignity of a home except for the murderous greed that tells us our landlords should have the power of life and death over us unless we tithe to their coffers.

    Actually, there is something that stops the people from doing this in the United States: the U.S. Constitution. Incorporated into that document is the Bill of Rights, which guarantees certain fundamental rights against encroachment by the federal government. The Fourteenth Amendment extends those rights to the states, if those states did not already incorporate similar rights into their state constitution. Ultimately, the people through their government cannot simply take someone else's property and give it to another; not without just compensation, at least.

    In order to pay that compensation, a government needs money. Presumably, it gets that money through taxes; however, the federal government could feasibly just print more and more until it has enough to buy up every parcel of vacant land and every empty residence in the country. One would simply have to convince the Federal Reserve and the other members of Congress of the wisdom of the solution.

    You ask what the alternative is to letting millions of people die of exposure every year, and my mouth drops open a little bit because I can't for my life imagine why you think that is an unavoidable outcome rather than one cultivated by greedy fuckwits who think that owning land is more important than human life.

    My mouth drops a little because of your presumption that millions of people die of exposure every year because of landlords in the United States. It isn't because of systemic racism, sexism, or genderism; it isn't because of familial or collective hatred for the mentally ill or non-dangerous deviance; and it isn't because of political cowardice, misguided priorities in governance, or simply societal indifference to the plight of others.

    No, people are dying because of landlords, folks.

    That said, everything in me says that this landlord done fucked up somewhere. Getting 32 tenants to agree to default on their leases knowing well what it may do to their credit and/or living arrangements suggests that the landlord is a piece of shit that needs to be strung up.


  • Pitcrew

    I don't think people realize how little a landlord actually makes if they are decent and take care of their buildings.

    Also this probably belongs in politics or something.



  • @WildBaboons

    I was thinking about putting it there, but this really isn't political.

    This be bitching about landlords, something which I understand.


  • Pitcrew

    It seems less about landlords and more about private property ownership



  • My landlord told us if we want to pay late he understands. He also said if we need any sort of supplies he will spare what he can. We complained about our shower and he fixed it better than new. We had issues with the dishwasher and he gave us a brand new one. I really, really like my landlord.


  • Pitcrew

    @GreenFlashlight said in Landlord Bitching:

    You ask what the alternative is to letting millions of people die of exposure every year, and my mouth drops open a little bit because I can't for my life imagine why you think that is an unavoidable outcome rather than one cultivated by greedy fuckwits who think that owning land is more important than human life.

    That is not what I asked. I asked what is the alternative to renting (and/or buying) a home.

    What you envision is basically a utopia.

    I have a home that I rent to a military veteran. I suppose I am a greedy fuckwit. I make am at a net loss every year on the home because I rent at a below-market price and do the repairs requested of me and provide free services. I do this because he's a good person and has a family and deserves a place to live that isn't going to cost him an arm and a leg. His rent pays the mortgage and I'm building equity in a house that I hope will someday pay for my children's education.

    I cannot give my renter this house rent free because it isn't possible. I still owe money on the house. So while it would be nice and wonderful and indeed idealistic if everyone in America could be freely given a home, it is not realistic.

    Saying "fuck landlords" as a blanket statement is misguided, it discounts people who are trying their best and who are trying to do a decent job. Finding humor in people who's livelihoods are being destroyed by this because they are landlords sucks and I honestly don't know what was funny about the original post.

    There's nothing funny about it. That guy rents an apartment building and he probably has loans that are owed to the bank. When he defaults on those loans, the Bank will take the property and all of those people who unified to not pay rent will be out of a home. These are actual serious prooblems that can't be fixed by saying "fuck landlords, everyone deserves a house for free".



  • @bear_necessities said in Landlord Bitching:

    That guy rents an apartment building and he probably has loans that are owed to the bank. When he defaults on those loans, the Bank will take the property and all of those people who unified to not pay rent will be out of a home.

    Going back to my comment, this landlord likely fucked up somewhere because I cannot imagine, out of 32 tenants, that not one of them thought about the possibility of eviction and debt in the future, which means that collectively they are trying to send a message to this guy.

    Speaking of pieces of shit:

    This guy is a landlord in my area. I'm part of an investors' group and every single one of them think that this guy is an asshole.

    He claims he was hacked.

    that's not how this works


  • Pitcrew

    @Ganymede Yeah I mean that's a strong possibility. Still doesn't make it any less sucky for everyone involved and I don't want to make judgments when I'm not in the situation. I just didn't see the humor in it originally (and honestly I didn't realize I was in the "Gallows Humor" thread when I responded in the first place).

    That guy that you posted is definitely an asshole. If my renter couldn't make rent, I'd figure it out right now - it would probably tap into my emergency funds, but that's why I have those, right? :(


  • Pitcrew

    I have had a couple good landlords. I have had more seriously shitty ones.

    I mean taking 4 months to fix an oven that was broken because of his own ineptitude. Taking over a week to fix a broken shower. He lived next door. His brother felt free to come knock on my door at all hours, looking for stuff. The landlord himself told me I was 'his type', flirted, etc. My utilities were included, until he decided he didn't like the amount he was getting every month, and tried to tell me he needed more than was stated in my lease. (I took him to court then, and won.) He showed people the apartment when I was getting ready to move out, without notice, and complained the dog was there. Where the fuck WOULD the dog be, when I had no idea he was bringing anyone over? Not to mention, I would have liked to know so I wasn't caught in my pjs.

    Most of the other 'shitty' landlords were of the complex type. I get pictures of someone else's dog shitting just off my patio, because the office says if I don't clean up after my dog, they'll slap an extra fee on my monthly rent, when I walk him and clean up, etc.

    So..fuck some landlords?



  • My apartment complex is offering payment plans and deferring late fees for everyone.

    I've heard of a couple instances of landlords completely waiving April's rent.

    But yes, some are demanding people pay regardless.

    Landlords, like everyone, exist on a spectrum.


  • Pitcrew

    @Ganymede said in Landlord Bitching:

    I can appreciate a spot of idealism, but I draw the line with unsupported suppositions. I am willing to go out on a limb and say that you, like the vast majority of people here, have no idea of what it is like to live in a non-capitalist country. We should talk a little about places like China.

    Then don't do it the way China does. Do I really need to say that? Do I really need to say that if there already exists a shittier alternative to a bad system, then don't emulate the shittier alternative?

    Below security needs are physiological needs.

    Shelter from the elements is a physiological need.

    I presume you do not oppose the idea that someone's income must go to farmers.

    Directly? Yeah, I do. I think food, water, housing, and medicine should all be guaranteed by the government. I suppose we can quibble about whether paying taxes counts as giving income to farmers if you think that's a useful conversation to have, but for-profit production of food is just as bad as for-profit rental of homes.

    Joe Murphy is probably going to die homeless, but it isn't because people have not tried to give him free housing.

    I don't know who Joe Murphy is and cannot comment.

    I know several people without homes at the moment, and while I might want to open my house to them my partner would likely object because she doesn't know them and may be concerned for our kids' safety.

    I am confused to why you bring this up. Do you think I can't tell the difference between protecting your family from people who are apparently dangerous versus just not letting people live because they don't give you enough money? If that's the case, please let me know, so I can stop wasting my time having a good faith conversation with someone who apparently thinks I'm an imbecile.

    But she's a landlord, right? So she has to be a piece of shit, if you are to be believed.

    I don't care about the color of your client's soul or whether she is presumably going to Heaven when she dies. I care about her participation in an inherently predatory system. If she's doing the best she can within that system, then sure, laud her for her accomplishments, but she still bears responsibility for being part of a system that holds people hostage, demanding their income under threat of death.

    There is literally nothing in the world stopping us from giving every living human the relative comfort and dignity of a home except for the murderous greed that tells us our landlords should have the power of life and death over us unless we tithe to their coffers.

    Actually, there is something that stops the people from doing this in the United States: the U.S. Constitution. Incorporated into that document is the Bill of Rights, which guarantees certain fundamental rights against encroachment by the federal government. The Fourteenth Amendment extends those rights to the states, if those states did not already incorporate similar rights into their state constitution. Ultimately, the people through their government cannot simply take someone else's property and give it to another; not without just compensation, at least.

    There is no difference between what I said and what you just said. You just reframed it so it sounds like murderous greed is okay as long as we build a government around murderous greed, which is not a great argument.

    In order to pay that compensation, a government needs money. Presumably, it gets that money through taxes; however, the federal government could feasibly just print more and more until it has enough to buy up every parcel of vacant land and every empty residence in the country. One would simply have to convince the Federal Reserve and the other members of Congress of the wisdom of the solution.

    Or the government could exercise eminent domain, seize all the land currently being denied to the people on the basis of profit, and dole it out. The existing American government has that power, never mind the utopian government I imagine. It does not exercise that power because it thinks money is better than people.

    My mouth drops a little because of your presumption that millions of people die of exposure every year because of landlords in the United States. It isn't because of systemic racism, sexism, or genderism; it isn't because of familial or collective hatred for the mentally ill or non-dangerous deviance; and it isn't because of political cowardice, misguided priorities in governance, or simply societal indifference to the plight of others.

    bear_necessities asked me why I said "Fuck landlords." They did not ask me about the general evils of racism, misogyny, ableism, and capitalism.

    No, people are dying because of landlords, folks.

    Yes. Systems of power can only hurt you when human agents of those systems of power participate in and enforce them, because without those human agents, a system of power is just an idea in someone's head. Landlords are accountable for their actions, just as we all are.

    @bear_necessities said in Landlord Bitching:

    That is not what I asked. I asked what is the alternative to renting (and/or buying) a home.

    That question does not make sense to me except in the context of accepting that the default is sacrificing the value of your labor to be able to live, which I do not accept. That is an artificial construct society put in place. It can be taken out of place and thrown on the scrap heap where it belongs.

    What you envision is basically a utopia.

    Yes. And if the option is to envision a society where we kill people for not being financially lucrative enough to our corporate overlords, then I will continue to defend utopia over the murderous regime currently in place.

    I have a home that I rent to a military veteran.

    Snipping most of this because everything I said about Ganymede's client applies here too.

    He's a good person and has a family and deserves a place to live that isn't going to cost him an arm and a leg.

    Quibble: He deserves a place to live without any cost at all, and he deserves that whether he's a good or bad person.

    His rent pays the mortgage and I'm building equity in a house that I hope will someday pay for my children's education.

    And equity is why I have little to no patience for people who claim being a landlord is so onerous, since even in your case which you seem to believe undercuts my point, you can simultaneously operate at a financial loss while generating hundreds of thousands of dollars of profit.

    So while it would be nice and wonderful and indeed idealistic if everyone in America could be freely given a home, it is not realistic.

    If you want to cleave to the reality of the situation, then you bear even more responsibility for your participation in the exploitative system of land rental than I assign you, because that is the reality of the situation.

    Saying "fuck landlords" as a blanket statement is misguided, it discounts people who are trying their best and who are trying to do a decent job.

    No, it refuses to let people present passive violence as somehow not being a form of violence from which people die regardless of the intentions of people who are trying their best.

    Finding humor in people who's livelihoods are being destroyed by this because they are landlords sucks and I honestly don't know what was funny about the original post.

    I'm uncertain whether this is addressed to me specifically or the conversation in general, so just in case, let me assure you I find nothing funny about any of this, and I hope the anger in my language makes it clear that I don't think any of this is funny. None of it is.

    These are actual serious problems that can't be fixed by saying "fuck landlords, everyone deserves a house for free".

    For the record, I never said my angry post on a tiny internet forum is a solution. It is an expression of my anger, nothing more. I wonder if I should even bother explaining what my solutions would be, since I get a powerful feeling that my attitude of "human life > money" is already too radical for the prevailing environment, which means my solutions to support that attitude would probably be heresy dismissed with even more bitter sarcasm.


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