I owe a lot of people some apologies.



  • For quite some time, I trusted someone I thought was credible.

    I found out the very hard way that this was not the case, and just how incredibly vile their take on various people really was.

    I do not know if something is wrong with them that they do this, but I really don't care. That person is no longer my problem. I have learned my lesson: do not, under any circumstances, believe what that person has to say about anyone.

    I spent a long time doing so.

    That was stupid, and that was wrong. That I didn't know any better does not absolve it even a little. That I seriously feel like complete shit about it doesn't, either. I was way too willing to hear ugly things about a variety of people and believe they were true, and that is absolutely NOT OK.

    I'm still traveling, so I can't really attend to this now in regard to specific people from this stupid tablet, but I damned well intend to make ammends and apologies as best I can -- not non-pologies -- to the people I may have hurt as a result, and to those who are open to hearing them.

    If you think this applies to (actual) you out there, please let me know. I should be home on the 5th but will reply to PMs as I am able in between. There are people I know of already that I will be trying to reach out to when I get home.

    I'm not kidding about this; I feel like shit knowing I was probably a party to other people going through the crap I recently did. I'm pretty fucking horrified by it.



  • To get something out of the way, just in case there's any confusion on this point:

    This is meant to address people I think I have behaved unfairly toward based on information from someone I since come to realize is a grossly unreliable narrator.

    It is limited to that, and that only.

    To try to extend this to anybody I may have offended over the years? Well, that would be ridiculous; not everyone I may have offended at some point in time is due to this, and to claim as much would be:

    • Complete bullshit

    • One of the most absurd dodges ever

    • Totally unacceptable implication of another person's involvement when they were in no way involved

    ...so hopefully, that is clear enough that there won't be any confusion about that part.

    ...

    I am not going to repeat the 'gossip' and badmouthing I heard about these individuals in the public thread.

    It is bad enough it was passed on to me, and I made assumptions about its accuracy. I am not willing to take part in even potentially spreading those accusations and suspicions about those involved.

    So, if you're looking for some tell-all of the things I've heard about people over time like some kind of secret gossip trove about all and sundry coming to light, you're going to be really bored and disappointed. Sorry not sorry about that.

    There's another important thing to note: I don't often actually pay much attention to this sort of thing, and was subject to a veritable flood of it for a couple of years. As a result, I am not going to remember everything that's come my way (read: may be floating around out there otherwise as well) because it went in one ear and out the other at the time.

    I do actually feel awful about this specifically, because while it means it didn't necessarily impact my actions? It may have for someone else hearing the same, and I'm unable to give a heads-up about it at this time, which I would very much like to be able to do if I am able. While I was able to guess at some of the crazy claims being made based on bizarre reactions to nothing I was at all aware of hearing before, let alone doing, or comments from folks, I had no idea how extreme they were. I may have been able to do something to protect myself if I had; I was legitimately too stupid and trusting to realize I needed to protect myself from this person at all for a very long time. If there's something I can do to prevent someone being stuck in a similar position, I want to try.

    ...

    I don't think (any combination of the following applies): 'oh, jeez, I done learned my lesson and got me some lumps, pity me now! See how hard I have it? I'm upset! Being mad at me would be mean! I totally have an excuse! I was lied to! You'd do the same in my shoes! See how burned I am? LOOK AT MY SCARS! Aren't they terrible? Isn't it all so awful what happened to me? You can't be mad at me, still, knowing that! Not if you have any sort of heart at all! I'm only human and will screw up sometimes, if you're only human, too, you can't be upset or you're a hypocrite!'

    That would be stupid.

    That is not my call to make.

    I don't get to tell (generic) you, "You don't get to be mad at me now!" about this, and I'm not even going to try that; that's a self-serving head-game. Trying to guilt-trip people into not being mad would be some epic garbage. (It is epic garbage. If you see someone throw themselves a pity party once called on bad behavior, or admitting such, whether that admission is forced or volunteered? Don't let someone exploit your empathy like that; it's another hard lesson learned here. This is a hallmark of bad actors.)

    Further, I'm not going to go down the list of shit I've been through RL in the past few years in a plea for understanding or compassion on those grounds, either.

    First? Everyone has their own shit just like it -- there isn't a person here who hasn't been through shit themselves. Did it spare them getting griefed? NO. It'd be a dazzling sort of entitled bullshit to think that if the person subject to bad behavior doesn't get a pass, the person engaging in the bad behavior should for any reason once it comes back around to them.

    More importantly? It doesn't fucking matter or make a difference; it is not an excuse.

    ...

    If this sounds angry? It's because I am angry. Someone invested a great deal of time and effort into making me angry, and they've got their wish.

    I am spectacularly fucking furious with myself for being a real asshole to some folks who never got the chance to defend themselves. In some cases, it was visible here; in others, it may have only ever been snarky thoughts in my head, but that's not somehow fine and dandy, either.

    This is not a joke -- when I realized what was up, I was physically ill. Run to the bathroom and barf for twenty solid minutes kinds of ill. It hit like a hammer, rather than being a buzzing gnat in of stupid drama that wouldn't stay out of my face that the rest of this stupid shit I personally dealt with from this person is. So while this is mentioned last? That isn't because it's nothing more than an afterthought.

    ...

    As to the following, if anyone wants to discuss any specifics, please PM. (Obviously, flame whatever tickles your fancy if you feel the need, but I'm trying to keep the details of things out of public view to not further spread the shit-whispers I was hearing around.)

    ...

    #1: Scorn (and ???).

    No, I should not have risen to the bait to share that quote, full stop. It doesn't matter what the 'we just want to see drama' peanut gallery says, and I should have known better than to let it get me riled into wrong action.

    I said I wouldn't share it publicly, and sharing it publicly was not OK for any reason, period.

    As to the other party? Don't know their name here, if they have an account at all. You didn't want this shared, either. While I do personally not think well of you for reasons entirely distinct from this situation, that doesn't make it somehow OK to subject you to crap of any kind. (Duh.)

    I know well why you both have concerns about this coming back on you even if not many others understand it, and that makes it doubly NOT OK to have done. (I was amazed by how many people popped up to voice understanding of those concerns who were unwilling or felt too uncomfortable to pipe up in the thread for obvious reasons. I hope y'all can take some small comfort from that, which is why I share it here.)

    ...

    #2: Jealousy and bored.

    Welp, I pulled the most dunderheaded display of hypocritical bullshit ever, guys. For all the fucking whining about 'what in the actual hell, why did no one talk to me to find out the truth here?' I... did not actually talk to Jealousy before just assuming I was being shown the whole truth, again. (I mean, jeebus, you'd think I'd learn, but... nope, didn't.)

    I didn't pull my head out of my ass here fast enough to not stick my foot in my mouth, shove the other one in right next to it, and tap dance around for a bit before the lightbulb dimly started to flicker on.

    I am grateful you were willing to speak with me about it after that, Jealousy. I would not have faulted you for it if you had not. This speaks volumes for your personal character, and it should be said in public view.

    bored, while we have definitely had our differences, things have seemed chill for a fairly long while. As a result, it was spectacularly shitty of me to buy a line of bull about you just hating me and the other party so much that something shady went down to screw us both over. I didn't approach you to talk since I'm still not sure how cool you are with that in general, or I would have. It was seriously shitty of me to think this could have been the reason for any of this for even a few hours.

    ...

    #3: Botulism.

    I should have wised up to what was going on far more quickly and page-locked both parties.

    I am very bad at pretending someone doesn't exist and ignoring them when they're throwing things in my face constantly, and I need to get a lot better at that.

    I am furious with myself that I allowed this circumstance to continue as long as it did in your space.

    ...

    #4: Roz, saosmash, and Kanye-Quest (and the forum at large in regard to this specific point)

    Not going to repeat the shit-whisper, but it was about Roz and saosmash, specifically, about characters they play on Arx. How the matter was described as 'being handled' by Kanye-Quest was included in this.

    It had a dramatic impact on my perception of all of you, and I should never have allowed that to happen. It definitely contributed to a lot of hostility on the forums that should never have existed at all.

    This made things uncomfortable for a number of people in completely unacceptable ways, and it was shitty of me to do. It may not have been the start of the tension, but it certainly was lighter fluid shot into that fire that sustained it for a considerable period of time.

    ...

    #5: Mietze

    Like a few others, a lot of the shit-whispers went in one ear and out the other because I knew you before it began. It didn't mean it didn't play a part in critical moments when frustration would rear its head and I'd hear a repetition.

    Out of everyone, you, I knew better than to believe any of this shit about, but I still allowed it to ramp up my temper in times of conflict, and more than once, to read things in entirely the wrong way with lots of yelling and stupidity.

    Out of everyone, you have been the most understanding when I was unstupid enough to apologize for shooting off my mouth along the way. That did not go unnoticed, and it matters. It should have counted for a lot more than it did, too -- a fuck of a lot more.

    ...

    #6: Cupcake

    Again, the shit-whispers more or less sailed over my head, because I don't really know you or (no offense) have much of an opinion in any direction other than 'someone who is in the hobby some of my friends have an issue with but I don't see any problem with'. There were a fair share of them, though.

    This is one of those cases in which I wish I remembered what was said to provide it as information, so if you suddenly found people talking crazy about one of these things, you'd know why. I do know more than enough about you to know you do not deserve to be in that position at all, and I feel like a garbage person that I'm no help there.

    ...

    #7: Cobalt

    Not repeating it, full stop.

    I should not have listened to it, particularly because many things touched on RL situations that are not anyone's business but yours. It doesn't matter that I didn't ask for this information; RL info is a hard line and there's no excuse for me not saying, "Stop right there," the moment it started.

    There were a few things that I have come to recognize as 'tells' now that should have been obvious to me much sooner that the things that were game-related were not reasonable or accurate, either, but even if they were?

    It wasn't my business, and I should have told the gossip to shut the fuck up.

    ...

    #8: The Other Party @HorrorMU

    I should have been much more clear and firm with you that I was not willing to put up with the abuse I was taking, and cut ties fully the moment it came to light.

    This may not have done me any good re: the abusive behavior going on, from all accounts, but it would have likely prevented needless stress for you from compounding further. (At a certain point, that is the best case scenario; I should have recognized that was it much sooner than I did, and made it happen.)

    Stress is the last thing I want anyone to contend with in the place they're looking to chill out and have fun, and this situation persisting allowed it to continue.

    ...

    To all of the folks above, I am sincerely sorry.

    "I trusted the wrong person" is not an excuse -- especially for me, because y'all are well-familiar with my constant stream of incidents of trusting the wrong people.

    I have no excuse to have not learned better by now.

    I have less than no excuse for not spotting the patterns before I did, and making better choices than the choices I made at the time.

    Even not knowing better does not excuse the actions described above, and I do regret those mistakes, and the wrong-headed or mean-spirited choices I have made. They've caused stress, tension, hurt, and division that were entirely unnecessary and unacceptable.


  • Pitcrew

    Thank you, surr. I will admit to being hurt and confused by the strength of negative reaction to me at times awhile ago. I didn't know that you guys moved in the same circles because I'd stepped away from mushing in no small part due to my last experience with them. It makes more sense now. I'm sorry you got caught up with them because I know personally how mean and vindictive they can be with absolutely no remorse or ability to perceive the impact of how they treat people on a regular basis that apparently had continued past when I had closer contact. For my part, public and personal forgiveness, though we have always been able to resolve our conflicts privately. I worry that this post leaves you open for further hurt when things are very raw though.


  • Pitcrew

    WELL. After hearing a bit more about what my apology was about -- good lord, the shit some people will make up.

    I have sometimes wondered over the past couple years about what felt like a disproportionate level of hostility from you, Surr, in the "man I don't even know, I can't say peep without her crashing down" sort of way. The reality certainly explains a lot. As far as I personally am concerned, whoever it was that told you the bullshit is the real bad actor that any of my anger would be directed at. While we scrap and fight in MSB, I don't feel personally harmed by the situation. (It's pretty obvious that I can TAKE CARE OF MYSELF in MSB fights.) I do appreciate the apology, however, and I feel in a situation to accept it. I'm sure we will live to scrap again.

    (Whoever is making up dumb and gross bullshit stuff can GFY or whatever tho.)



  • I also appreciate the apology and the context that it provides. I'm still a little confused about where the bullshit in question came from but I guess haters gonna hate?


  • Pitcrew

    well I don't even know what the situation i'm mentioned in is, or what it was about, so I forgive no one. Mad forever.




  • Pitcrew

    @saosmash said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    I also appreciate the apology and the context that it provides. I'm still a little confused about where the bullshit in question came from but I guess haters gonna hate?

    in any communication issue, I am being misunderstood and it is totally explainable. You are absolutely doing it on purpose to ruin something for me.



  • @kanye-qwest said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    @saosmash said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    I also appreciate the apology and the context that it provides. I'm still a little confused about where the bullshit in question came from but I guess haters gonna hate?

    in any communication issue, I am being misunderstood and it is totally explainable. You are absolutely doing it on purpose to ruin something for me.

    ...


  • Tutorialist

    First:

    I said this privately to @surreality but I'll say it publicly too. While I won't say "it's okay" because that'd be speaking for other people who have been impacted. I will say-- I understand and I'm not mad at you Surreality. I was underneath the thumb of Spider for long enough that I know what it's like to take a step back and realize you were being fed venom for a long time, and have to look back on your past actions and judge all of them as carefully as you can. It's a shit feeling. I'm glad you realized the person in question was toxic.

    Also, though I didn't say this in our chat because I'm running out of time before work I'll say it now--

    I do owe you an apology as well. I apologize for the day I basically spammed you with gifs in threads. It's not an excuse to be explain: I was honestly just trying to have discourse with you and then you started saying that I was always out for you, and I just sort of snapped and was like 'well she wants conflict, I'll give her conflict'-- It was petty and I shouldn't have done it. I'm sorry.

    Lastly:

    I'm gone. Until @Auspice is no longer an admin-- at the very fucking least --on this board I'm gone. I won't be returning to MSB. I won't be engaging in the MU* community where I know she is. It's one thing to tell people I'm aggressively chasing the guy she wants on a game (she was wrong by the way) but it is another to tell people details about my real life and about my real life relationship-- whether those details are correct or inaccurate.

    That is the shittiest fucking thing.

    And I won't be a part of a community that welcomes her with open arms.

    peace

    ETA: I can't find how to delete my account, so it'll just be around like my ghost forever. Bye guys!


  • Pitcrew

    @thenomain said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    @kanye-qwest said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    @saosmash said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    I also appreciate the apology and the context that it provides. I'm still a little confused about where the bullshit in question came from but I guess haters gonna hate?

    in any communication issue, I am being misunderstood and it is totally explainable. You are absolutely doing it on purpose to ruin something for me.

    ...

    it was my take on why these sorts of things happen, man, not a serious statement. Obviously this is no big deal to me, i was kidding about being mad.



  • @kanye-qwest said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    @thenomain said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    @kanye-qwest said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    @saosmash said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    I also appreciate the apology and the context that it provides. I'm still a little confused about where the bullshit in question came from but I guess haters gonna hate?

    in any communication issue, I am being misunderstood and it is totally explainable. You are absolutely doing it on purpose to ruin something for me.

    ...

    it was my take on why these sorts of things happen, man, not a serious statement. Obviously this is no big deal to me, i was kidding about being mad.

    Oh I've seen you mad, and I was kidding you about it.

    I don't think anyone could reasonably think that you were actually mad, which made it a good time to pretend to take it seriously.

    All in all: ;)



  • This certainly helps translate some of my bigger wtf moments in the last couple of years of @Auspice as mod and answers some questions I'd had too. I'm disgusted but not very surprised.

    I'll reiterate my originally stated opinion from several years ago: she needs to not be a mod here.


  • Pitcrew

    @cobaltasaurus I actually just "What the actual Fuck?"'d out loud.


  • Pitcrew

    No apologies needed. We've had enough exchanges in public and private to know where you stand, and I appreciate you being upfront. Stuff like this is hard.

    Honestly, as for the gossip, at this point I expect folks can either put up or shut up. Which is not on you at all.



  • This thread seems to have taken a hard turn at some point.



  • @derp said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    This thread seems to have taken a hard turn at some point.

    That point was when people decided that keeping the identity of Surr's complaint private was not good for the community.

    So it was inevitable.



  • Personally I did not attempt to glean the identity of the defamer from context clues. Ultimately, I know that people are going to talk shit about me because I am a person who exists on the internet in communities with other people.

    I was... surprised and confused by what Surr told me, which did not include the identity of said defamer, and I didn't ask. If the source of the garbage was in fact Auspice, that's disappointing and sad, and yet I remain without outrage.

    Frankly the accusation in question was so ludicrous as to defy outrage, too absurd to defend.

    Just like... really? Really, really?

    Grow up.


  • Pitcrew

    @saosmash said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:

    Personally I did not attempt to glean the identity of the defamer from context clues. Ultimately, I know that people are going to talk shit about me because I am a person who exists on the internet in communities with other people.

    I was... surprised and confused by what Surr told me, which did not include the identity of said defamer, and I didn't ask. If the source of the garbage was in fact Auspice, that's disappointing and sad, and yet I remain without outrage.

    Frankly the accusation in question was so ludicrous as to defy outrage, too absurd to defend.

    Just like... really? Really, really?

    Grow up.

    ok but it's all true, though. It was my plan all along. It's the whole reason I championed the idea of letting same sex relationships (and marriages, at times) be socially acceptable in a fantasy 'L&L' game.

    The complaints rolled in and i said NOPE GET OVER IT my special angel babies that I have never spoken to before can do. what. they. want.

    (just to be clear, for the peanut gallery, this is 100% sarcasm. Exactly 0 complaints about the situation ever rolled in, because there was not a situation)



  • @thenomain It is not about that, though.

    No bullshit: it wouldn't matter who that person is/was re: 'I should not have behaved as I have behaved', because I still did it.

    How I behaved was not OK at all, and I gotta own that, full stop, even if/when things turn again, because it isn't about who to blame in any way. The only person to be blaming here is me.

    I knew better, and did not do better. Pretty much the solid definition of 'being a jackass'.


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